Capitalism vs. Socialism: A Soho Forum Debate

ReasonTV

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    "Socialism is preferable to capitalism as an economic system that promotes freedom, equality, and prosperity."
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    That proposition was the subject of a November 5, 2019, debate hosted by the Soho Forum, a monthly debate series sponsored by Reason. Arguing in favor of the resolution was Richard D. Wolff, an economist at the University of Massachusetts and the author, most recently, of Understanding Marxism. Taking the other side was former Barron's economics editor Gene Epstein, who is also the Soho Forum's co-founder and director. Reason's Nick Gillespie served as moderator.
    It was an Oxford-style debate, in which the audience votes on the resolution at the beginning and end of the event; the side that gains the most ground is victorious. It was a packed house, with about 450 people in attendance. The pre-debate vote found that 25 percent of the audience agreed that socialism was preferable to capitalism, 49.5 percent picked capitalism as the better system, and 25.5 percent were undecided. Despite a technical problem at the event itself, the Soho Forum was able to recover the final vote totals, which saw support for socialism drop by half a percentage point and support for capitalism increase to 71 percent.
    Produced by John Osterhoudt
    Photo Credit: Brett Raney

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    Жорумдар

    1. Joshua Zapzalka

      It's like socialists just almost get it. They're so close sometimes, but the key parts they miss make all the difference.

    2. Sims Fish

      Socialism/Communism killed and oppressed millions of innocent people. Capitalism didn't cause the death of millions and promoted individualism.

    3. Leo

      Great debate. But I choose Richard's points as they contain a lot of wonderful possibilities for society as a whole

      1. James Adams

        What points? He was just full of nonsense the whole time. Like blaming capitalism for government wars...it just doesn't make any sense. Plus at the end he admitted that his socialism involves government force just like socialism always has done. You should probably look at socialism in practice, because it isn't the utopia being promised.

    4. Boris Tumarin

      Well, after 28 years of leaving in socialism and being intimately familiar with every aspect of it I am ultimately qualified to call Mr. Woolf an imbecile. Seriously, why wouldn't he immerse himself in the "great" "system" of socialism for a year or two before promoting this horrible, ridiculous idea to unsuspecting curious people by using his deceiving, carefully structured arguments? His arguments of new socialism show that he has no the slightest idea of how socialism works and how the mob chooses their leaders and where it goes from there (HELL). He speaks to the people who have no idea what socialism is in the real world that is full of real people with well-known flows! Socialism marinates these flows and brings the worst of us to the top creating "THE SYSTEM". No future, no freedom, no money, no nothing, just misery, and lies!!! Socialist speaking of democracy? Ridiculous!!!

      1. James Adams

        Oh he knows but he just lies about it and downplays the awful results while also lying about capitalism. Now he's got a shill by the name of Michael Mappin coming in to spew socialist propaganda for him too.

    5. MHMHM

      Wolff's opening is basically like this: "We have not tried socialism enough. Socialism is superior to capitalism because it is. Socialism is better. All of his arguments are very philosophical. None of his arguments have ever carried any real-life example or even just a taste of reality. it's all just "in theory" or rather "in my opinion". It's just like saying "going to venus is gonna be the best decision. without even talking about how we are supposed to do it. or explain why we are supposed to do it". The reason Wolff loves socialism is that he is not a productive human being. He wants to be at the top of the top. Yet, he has not got any of the skillsets to be considered valuable in society. He is the moral equivalent to a get-rich-quick guru. He has no legitimate skillset so he has to sell people on a course of a farse lie to gain power and control. Power and control is the only thing Wolff wants. He is not useful to a society, that values useful people very highly. So he has to be a con artist, to try to achieve his deepest desires.

      1. James Adams

        @MHMHM he is a complete idiot, and a shill to boot. Literally all that he does is go around spamming socialist propaganda all day. He goes from video to video of anything from Richard Wolff to spam it as well as social media. " i never really cared up until i reached the point where i was taxed with more money than i actually made. The Net worth tax we have in Norway almost destroyed me for 3 years" Oh damn...that's awful. Sorry to hear that mate. People wouldn't take that here in the US. That's nonsense. "Norway literally hands out tax deductibles for credit card debt." The US used to do that too, but we ended it. Sorry to hear about your situation. It's getting to be that way in the US as well, unfortunately. These socialist morons are ruining the economy and they never take responsibility for their bad ideas. Imo, the best way forward is to secede from it all. My solution was early retirement which can avoid a lot of the taxes here in the US.

      2. MHMHM

        @James Adams I have seen the Michael Mappin guy before. he looks like a complete idiot to me... Socialists have always annoyed me, But i never really cared up until i reached the point where i was taxed with more money than i actually made. The Net worth tax we have in Norway almost destroyed me for 3 years... I was heavily investing in small businesses. The problem with private equity is that the company growth is always gonna be a lot higher than liquidity. So when you have a large private equity portfolio, you reach the point where your net worth blows up (on paper). Because the value of the business is just skyrocketing after the first fundraiser is finished. So the companies had very little liquidity. My wages are quite normal. I'm nothing out of the ordinary. The country just really fucking hated me for living frugally and investing in the country... Norway literally hands out tax deductibles for credit card debt. like it's candy. But investors like me are demonized for investing in the country. and to be frank spending a lot of time working with the company as a board member. I have a lot of financial knowledge having my full-time job in a corporate advisory. My country just hates people like me so much. they believe im evil because i invest for profits. what the people don't consider is the fact that multiple of the businesses that I helped to actually grow. have ended up helping a lot of people, and also saving lives... so I legally left the country and actually educated myself on the danger of socialism. I still struggle to believe how taxpayers just accept getting ripped off this way... Socialists want average people to take active roles in businesses and when people actually do so, they are demonized??? the logic is so farse. The left-wing parties have wrecked Norway... And the right-wing parties have weak leaders. who are more interested in handing out blow money to state-sponsored corporations. who waste taxpayer money on stupid projects that achieve negative returns of around -600%

      3. James Adams

        Not only that but his arguments are full of lies, like blaming capitalism for world wars. Next you're going to get a lying shill by the name of Michael Mappin come in to defend him because he's been spamming this video with mindless defense of Richard Wolff and socialist propaganda for over a year.

    6. Anthony Romero

      Capitalism is better than socialism because socialism uses force from the government and get told what to do. Capitalist usually only happen in democratic countries that dont use force on people with innovation.

      1. James Adams

        Exactly, and Richard Wolff admitted it. He wants to force companies to "sell" and have the government "lend" that money to "buy." There is no denying that socialists use force to achieve their ideas. In before shill Michael Mappin comes to peddle socialist propaganda, lies and gaslighting.

    7. Stanfran

      Destiny beat this socialists ass...

      1. Stanfran

        @Michael Mappin lol OK bro. 👌

      2. Michael Mappin

        Yeah, Destiny thought markets and capitalism wear the same thing. He thought capitalism was merely selling the product of your labour into the market. He couldn't differentiate between modes of production and modes of distribution. The guy is basically politically and economically illiterate. Couldn't understand what Richard Wolff was talking about 90% of the time.

      3. James Adams

        Yes, he absolutely did, and I hadn't seen anything from Destiny before that. Socialists like Richard Wolff make up definitions of words to suit their agenda so that they can redefine anything bad to fit into their straw man of their opponent's ideology rather than their own (even when doing what they explicitly call for) while redefining anything good to be a result of their system (even when the exact opposite is the case). These socialists lie constantly (like accusing capitalism of massive death tolls that were explicitly socialist/communist regimes doing it). Michael Mappin is one of the communist shills in the comments. He goes to practically every Richard Wolff video to stan for him and smear anyone who disagrees, proclaiming that they're "not making any sense" or "don't understand the argument" or similar gaslighting.

    8. Life Imagined

      Why do they always have to be debates? Why not discussions? These kinds of capitalist vs socialist debates lead to nowhere because both don't base their points on actual truths but just try to slur stereotypes of each other's ideology

      1. James Adams

        @Life Imagined yeah, me too. I was hoping that this would be better. They put up a newer one with Gene against Ben Burgis, but it wasn't much better. The socialist lost that one too.

      2. Life Imagined

        @James Adams Yeah I didn't actually watch the video just thought that it would be as u explained it and I was right. What I want is to see is some new ways of criticizing socialism not just the usual stuff

      3. James Adams

        On the contrary, the socialist spewed nonsense while the capitalist brought factual arguments. The socialist lost so bad he had to make a cope video and bring a paid shill by the name of Michael Mappin to run cover for him.

    9. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") (source 10 see TIK video on YT for Hiter's socialism) 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 11 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 12 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

    10. Chloe Ahrens

      what are the books?

    11. Am bhat

      Respect. Cum. Love My dears due to heavy load only. One. Video for ever

    12. Mauricio R

      "2 young men in the prime of their lives" Shows 2 grandpas on stage

    13. Robert Burns

      Long as we stay demarcate we will be a better America Republican are stealing from us

    14. Julian I

      Yes, norway has oil money that we sell to get rich, but the reason people are so damn happy here is because of the way we have distributed that wealth with social interests. I have gone through a medical treatment that probably cost at least 100.000 dollars these last few years to save my life. My family has low average income. Do you know how much the medical treatment cost me? Maybe a total of 200 dollars. Even the transportation I have needed (plane flights) to get to the hospital is payed for by tax money. I just call a number a few weeks before my appoitments, tell them "I need a flight to the hospital, here is the letter" and they buy it for me on the spot. It has enabled me, and my entire family, to be happy and continue to be productive members of society. Most people here pay taxes gladly, because we get our very quality of life back for it, sooner or later, and we think everyone should, no matter what tragedy strikes them. In america I would be dead, or my family would be ruined. And thousands of people like me would suffer the same fate. As they do now in the radical capitalist us.

      1. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , you're not making any sense. I thanked the person for their comment. And then you turn around and say something about selective reading? 😀

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin oh would you look at that...I tried calling YOU again and you weren't online to answer because you know that you're going to be asked why you intentionally lie, peddle propaganda and ignore sources. I'll tell you what: you give me a time that works for you and you can answer why you are lying and gaslighting and peddling propaganda at a time that YOU like.

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin I mean selective reading where you refuse to read sources when you get debunked, dumbass. Yeah, go ahead and give me a call. You've been completely running away from any form of debate because you know that you're going to be asked why you're intentionally lying and ignoring sources that prove you wrong as soon as you do. Here are a list of some of your other lies that you keep spamming despite the sources being right here: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") (source 10 see TIK video on YT for Hiter's socialism) 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 11 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 12 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      4. James Adams

        @MHMHM well said.

      5. MHMHM

        Well, you are missing the fact that Norway's welfare system is not economically efficient at all. Som en felles nordmann må du vurdere faktumet at Norges helsevesen ikke er det mest robuste... Og skatten er veldig innefektiv... jeg flyttet ut av Norge for en del år siden. Mest av alt fordi formue skatten er forferdelig. De siste par årene har jeg fått en prislapp på 1 millioner kroner i året. Jeg tjener bare 1,2-1,4 millioner kroner i året... Jeg håper du skjønner at vi har et stort matematisk problem her. hvis jeg tjener 1,4 før skatt... så må jeg betale inntekt skatt... Så da er jeg tvunget til å tvinge kapital i form av utbytte ut av bedriftene jeg eier. Jeg investerer i Norsk næringsliv, mest i unoterte verdipapirer. Problemet med dette er at det er veldig ofte høy vekst, og lite likviditet. Det var flere år hvor jeg levde på mindre enn 400 000 kroner. Noe som jeg synes er urettferdig når jeg har litt over 100 millioner investert i Norsk næringsliv. Jeg hadde ikke brydd meg like mye om jeg hadde blitt skattet mer på inntekten. Men når jeg blir skattet på penger jeg ikke har, synes jeg det er urettferdig. Jeg blir rett og slett skattet fordi jeg har en puls. WOW, dette er rettferdig!!! Here is the real deal. your treatment would probably not have cost $100k. cost of healthcare in the US blown way out of proportion by Scandinavians. I have paid for private healthcare/insurance for all of my life. The public sector healthcare quality in Norway is very bad when you adjust for public costs. Americans live longer lives than Scandinavians if you adjust for gun deaths and traffic accidents. Imagine getting beaten by the most obese people in the fucking world. Americans stuff their face with the most fat and grease they can find all day. and we are getting wrecked this bad??? We are also far behind on cancer treatment and medical development. Norway's healthcare system would literally be 1950s quality of care if the US and Israel have not done the amount of medical development they have. We also need to consider that without foreign investments and export Norway would be all the way back in the Stone Age. Our economy is falling further and further behind because of our tax policies. we are losing more and more ownership to foreign countries. we own very little of our own nation right now. This is gonna backfire very hard. We already see our new foreign owners treating our workers like they are fucking garbage. We are also in the largest housing bubble in the world right now. Norway is gonna be the country that is the hardest hit. And the Norwegian state-owned and sponsored companies are gonna be hit the hardest. These companies are run by our parliament who has corporate knowledge on par with some stinky socks and a fat goat. Massive debt problems, and a very low rate of return on investment. These companies are also federally insured. So the taxpayers are the ones who are gonna have to pay for this... These companies also pay out insane corporate wages... They spend money like it's candy. one business trip here, one there. "oh wow, did we really spend $70k on blow for the trips. wow, ooooopsie. Sorry taxpayer" I can't wait to go short on all the private companies forced to bail out our federally insured shit companies. Back to the tax system. Norway's cost of living is about 2,8x as much as the US. So practically you almost get 3x as much for your money in the US compared to Norway. I don't live in the US, but bashing the US like most Scandinavians are doing is just silly talk. They believe they are benefiting from their tax input. But most of the money ends up sponsoring massive Parlament garage buildings, terrorism in Somalia, other stupid foreign aid, bailing out foreign gigantic corporations, blow money for state-sponsored companies, bailing out companies that make insane/stupid financial decisions because they know they will be bailed out regardless. so they don't give a shit at all. Don't forget government regulation on housing making housing costs grow at 15% in Oslo per year... That is 5x as much as inflation and 4x as much as wages. Not only is the construction regulation insane, but the subsidies to real estate constructors and real estate investors... keep in mind these companies already have insane profit margins... I will much rather spend 20% on taxes in Switzerland per year... A country i only "legally live in"... Norway is missing out on real taxpayer money, just because they are too fucking greedy.

    15. Feathery Coffee

      Filtering by top comments and by new is a VERY different experience

    16. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

    17. Alex Kane

      You’re not touching what’s mine. I don’t care about your philosophy and your pretty words about why you’re entitled to what’s mine, what’s mine is mine, so what you’re debating is of no concern to me. To warp and redefine what is yours and what is mine is the essence of narcissism and I, and others should not entertain it. If I’m so inclined I will decide on my own volition to help those in need, I will, and I have, and will continue to do so irrespective of what others think or say. The peak of human greatness is done so willingly, not by force, which is why charity has done far more for humanity than welfare could ever dream of. It’s as simple as that. There’s nothing else to discuss.

      1. Alex Kane

        @Michael Mappin except ownership isn’t merely granted, one must accumulate the wealth to buy all of the aspects of production otherwise ownership HAS NO MEANING. You cannot merely “grant” ownership. If a group of people want to get together to create a co-op, those exist, golf courses with memberships are often run that way, some local banks are run that way, in tiny, small, insignificant businesses with low stakes can sometimes run that way, like kibbutzes. But when the government, by force, arbitrarily doles out equity evenly, it never ever ever ever ever fucking works. If you WANT to run a co-op guess what... YOU CAN! Wow! Thanks capitalism! But when it’s forced, it doesn’t fucking work because you must willing give up something as collateral in order to have risk/stakes, and it needs to be proportionate to your ownership and your output. And every co-op is limited, rarely grows very much, and rarely produces novel and innovative products. When forced, there’s millions of inefficiencies and the system fucking disintegrates and dies, people starve, die, and the economy grinds to a fucking halt. Why? Because there’s no incentive to pull your weight as your level of equity cannot be threatened as is your “right”. Equity. Is. Not. A. Fucking. Right. It cannot be, EVER. You keep saying “how many times do I need to explain this” when you’ve explained none of it, and then when you do, it’s an old concept that’s been tried and failed and makes no sense.

      2. Michael Mappin

        @Alex Kane , I never said you own something merely because you put labour into it. Yes, in order for workers to own the product of their labour they actually have to own the company or the factory. So you didn't watch the debate. You're just making assumptions. What do you think the debate is about? Again, it's about the worker-owned means of production versus the privately-owned capitalist mode of production. When workers own the company then they get all of the wealth that the company produces. When you work as a mere employee, you do not get to make the decisions. You do not get to keep most of the wealth. The argument is very simple and straightforward. You see, if you actually watch the debate then you would know it doesn't have anything to do with people taking other people's property. That's where the confusion is coming from.

      3. Alex Kane

        @Michael Mappin Oh I listened, I wanted to hear your definition. I wasn’t disappointed oh boy I’ve heard this nonsense before. youve explained nothing with your gaslighting idiocy. That’s moronic, I’ve heard this argument 1000 times and it makes no sense. That’s not how equity works, I cannot believe that you actually think that’s a tenable concept. When you produce something in order for it to be yours you must own everything that goes into it. You must own the equipment, the risk, the materials, everything. It isn’t yours merely because you put labor into it, that’s literally just one aspect of production. If you buy the equipment, and buy the materials, that means you incur the risk and therefor own the product, do that, then you can have equity, and when you sell your labor, you no longer own that either. If you make a company that has equal equity it cannot grow, it is merely a series of individuals working near eachother, it’s not even a company, it’s not even an entity, it’s a nothing, it’s just a bunch of people working in proximity with eachother that have nothing to do with eachother. Without a hierarchy there cannot be a direction, there cannot be growth, there is no incentive to produce your fair share and no mechanism to remove equity as punishment for lack of production. In reality there are skill sets that are more complex, of more value and less supply than mere labor, to compensate them equally as labor eliminates incentive to put in the extra effort to be an engineer, for example. An engineer is not producing anything, is he to be compensated? Who decides who gets what? Without risk there is no ownership, if you get wages you have the benefit of incurring no risk. If you want to incur the risk of your own labor, produce everything yourself without the help of anyone else or any company, and take no wages, and then you can be the owner. And beyond all of this, in what moronic backwards reality do you live in where you actually believe this mode of production actually is a significant mode in any western nation? It’s not, at all, why? Because it’s never ever ever ever worked.

      4. Michael Mappin

        @Alex Kane , you didn't listen to the debate. The Socialist mode of production is when the workers own the company. The workers run the company collectively, democratically and are doing their own work. They're not capitalizing on other people's labour for-profit. I thought I've already explained this? You see, capitalism isn't merely selling the product of your labour. For example, if you write a book and you sell it in the market, that is not capitalism. If you grow vegetables in your garden and sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. When the workers are doing their own work and selling the product of their labour, that is not capitalism. The core concept of socialism is Collective ownership of the means of production. You can have either Community or worker ownership. Some socialist believe believe that in order for it to be actual socialism you have to have direct ownership. Others believe that you can have indirect ownership through the government. (public) When the state owns businesses and factories they're referred to as SOEs. What Richard Wolff is referring to is called WSDEs. That's when you have direct worker ownership.

      5. Alex Kane

        @Michael Mappin What? Can you even define what the “socialist mode of production” even is?

    18. Justin Erickson

      Wofle, how is social security working out?

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no it doesn't work very well. It is projected to run out of funds (has nothing to do with sabotage) and it gives people a negative rate of return on their money.

      2. Michael Mappin

        What does social security have to do with worker ownership? Social Security works very well. It would be working even better if so many people weren't trying to sabotage it.

    19. Justin Erickson

      "Wage slaves" is a fallacy. We're all slaves to food. Food costs effort. Oh you poor "food slaves". Is Wolfe saying that if we follow Karl Marx's theories correctly, we won't need food anymore? "No, he is saying workers should have a say in how organizations are run." Ok, does that make it so people don't have to work anymore? "No of course everybody understands everybody has to work." Ok, so we are all "wage slaves" then no matter what and we all know that then. Quit using a term to trigger people and then make them think they don't have to work. Quit trying to seduce people with fake bullshit. Marx preyed on people with a poor understanding of economics, and that includes himself and Wolfe. It's pure arrogance. Wolfe is an idiot stuck inside his own arrogance.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin quit lying. No one was forced into wage labor. No one is taking labor value from workers. Your bread company isn't getting people $70k because of socialism but because they work in California, they have an average of 15 years work experience and they invested thousands of dollars into the business. Anyone can do that. And yes you and Richard Wolff are massive lying economically illiterate communist morons. The proof is right here where you lied your ass off and spammed nonsense yet again.

      2. Michael Mappin

        Oh, and Richard Wolff is definitely not an idiot. You'd be very hard-pressed to find someone more prolific or experienced.

      3. Michael Mappin

        A wage slave is someone who doesn't own the product of their labour and has to sell their labour in order to survive. That is a wage slave. When you work and sell the product of your labour, you are not a wage slave. When you don't have a choice and have to sell your labour in order to manufacture someone else's product, then you are a wage slave. There is an employee- employer, a boss and a subordinate, a master and a servant. You have someone who dictates while the other have to follow orders. If you look at Labor history, you'll see that the conversion to capitalism was extremely bloody and violent. Workers had to be forced into capitalism. Back then wage slavery was considered to be almost as bad as chattel slavery. Even the Republican party was against wage slavery. When you don't own the product of your labour, you're basically nothing more than human livestock. For example, in the United States there is a socially owned bread factory where the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 a year. They're able to make that much money because they own the product of their labour. However, if you're an assembly line worker at a capitalist company, you'll be lucky if you make a bit more than minimum wage. That's because wage slaves do not own the product of their labour. It doesn't matter if they make $70,000 worth of product or 70 million dollars worth of product. It All Belongs to someone else. In that environment a workers just like a dairy cow. If the farmer gives the cow bovine growth hormone in order to double milk production, the cow doesn't end up with twice the amount of milk. It doesn't get to work half as many hours. You have a farmer that ends up with twice the amount of milk. That's why they call it wage slavery. In that capacity There's no difference between animal livestock and human livestock. Workers want to achieve socialism so they can extricate themselves from wage slavery. When you're a wage slave you can never get the full value of your labour. You're not just losing labour about you, you're losing time off of your life. If you work for 4 hours but only get paid for two hours, you've basically had your life span reduced by two hours. Someone else gets the wealth you sacrificed two hours of your life for. Capitalists are kind of like bloodsuckers. Instead of sucking your blood, they suck time away from your lifespan. Your labour energy is converted to wealth which they spend on themselves. They reduce your life so that they can expand can spend theirs. Getting you to work two extra hours means two hours they don't have to work themselves. They can spend that time living.

    20. Arturo

      Socialism sounds great on paper. In a utopian society in which you have complete transparency, people are generally intelligent and care about both what is best for themselves and for their fellow citizens, and in which you have philosopher kings as leaders, it might work. But in the real world, human beings are inherently selfish and those that lead will always become corrupt. At least with capitalism you can just go find a new job.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin you're not making any sense. No, it's not a separate issue. It's the entire reason why Richard Wolff's socialism is not compatible with freedom. The capitalist in this debate explicitly argued AGAINST that, and it isn't capitalist at all to say such a thing so you're not making any sense. My comment made perfect sense. Quit gaslighting when you get debunked.

      2. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , what are you talkin about? Being able to borrow money from the government is a completely different issue. Many capitalist also think they should be able to borrow money from the government. Is that proof that capitalism doesn't work without the government? Do you actually think about what you're saying? But yeah, Richard wolf thinks that if the government allows companies to move production to a different country, then the government should lend money to the workers in the event that they want to buy any leftover equipment or buildings which ends up being auctioned off. People pay taxes to the government for protection. People should be able to borrow money in the event of such circumstances. Look at the devastating effects in Flint Michigan when the Ford Motor Company move production. Anyway, as usual, your comment doesn't make any sense.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Arturo , yeah, of course we have cooperative within capitalism. And Richard Wolff is not talking about stock options. He's talking about direct worker ownership where each worker has one vote. The workers themselves are the board of directors. You either you don't understand what socialism is or you didn't watch the debate.

      4. Arturo

        @Michael Mappin We have "worker cooperatives" in capitalist societies. They are called stocks.

      5. Michael Mappin

        @Arturo , and like I said, socialism does work. And we have no shortage of hard empirical data to prove it. Also, I already explained how and why socialism is more favorable when dealing with human nature compared to capitalism. If you mean beans are truly greedy like you say, then capitalism which gives a small minority massive power over the economy, government, resources, labour, it's certainly not the economic system you want in place. Your comment doesn't make any sense. It's like saying that fire is really dangerous therefore you should climb out of the swimming pool and jump into a tank of gasoline. Socially owned workplaces are more conducive to a free-market and thriving economy and not prone to corruption. Bottom-up, Democratic non-hierarchical systems are not prone to corruption. Do you understand how and why? You should. Study number 1: Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses. "The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness. It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries. Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues. The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms. When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit." The main findings from the analysis and review are: • Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive. • Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment. • Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently. • Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models. • Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms. ** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes." Here is a link to the research data www.uk.coop/sites/default/files/uploads/attachments/worker_co-op_report.pdf Study number 2: This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation! democracycollaborative.org/content/worker-cooperatives-pathways-scale Study number 3: This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”. www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/1995/01/1995_bpeamicro_craig.pdf Study number 4: An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself. www.uk.coop/newsroom/new-report-highlights-lessons-worlds-largest-worker-co-op Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times! CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018 ▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership. www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf ▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf 1. For example, these assembly line workers make $65,000 a year for putting bread into a bag! kgup.info/get/Xo2Yk3vbqZxtm4c/video 2. People feel United and actually look forward to going to work! That makes them more creative and productive. kgup.info/get/oH9sYq_Wf52UeKU/video 3. Worker cooperatives are more productive than normal companies www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/ 4. More resilience, productivity, and equality. lindsayadvocate.ca/worker-cooperatives-a-path-to-equality/ 5. Democratic workplaces are far superior to capitalist corporations! cooperativesfirst.com/blog/2017/09/11/2017911how-co-operatives-are-better-than-corporations/ 6. People have more money, people are happier, people are more productive and more creative, and they feel more connected to their communities and environment. kgup.info/get/lqRtiobbdouHmqU/video 7. The Italian Region Where Co-ops Produce a Third of Its GDP www.yesmagazine.org/economy/2016/07/05/the-italian-place-where-co-ops-drive-the-economy-and-most-people-are-members/ 8. pandemic crash shows worker cooperatives are more resilient than traditional businesses. Worker co-ops are a more sustainable form of business, sharing benefits in the good times and burdens in the hard times. truthout.org/articles/pandemic-crash-shows-worker-co-ops-are-more-resilient-than-traditional-business/ 9. Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass www.electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/ 10. "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy." "US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location." Key points to highlight about American cooperatives: • There are 120 million cooperative members. • 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions. • More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population. • In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations. • Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion. • More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives. • More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware.

    21. Gary Gogo

      Im well educated on economics and I've listened to many debates about socialism vs capitalism, mainly because I'm extraordinarily curious on why people want to fall toward socialism. All of them really boil down to one basic concept. Socialism can actually work in a capitalist society, nothing is stopping it. On the other hand Capitalism is forbidden in a socialist society. So the question of which one is superior is obvious. ALL of Richard's ideas are completely allowed in a capitalist society, have at it no one is stopping you, but if Richard could implement his society none of capitalists ideas are allowed. It is literally a no brainer. Richard has never had a real job, he has never owned a business, he has never had to manage employees or a business. Though he is well educated , and an economic professor, he has never actually really applied economics in a real life scenario. Every business owner and capitalist I've ever met is very motivated and has a competitive personality, every socialist I have ever met is extremely lazy, and feels like society owes them something.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin workers always get 100% of their labor value dumbass. Quit lying about economics when you don't know economics. Don't you ever get tired of lying and spamming this propaganda?

      2. Gary Gogo

        @Michael Mappin you didnt provide any resources. No one has to work for Walmart, that is the beauty of where we live and where we are at. If I had no skill what so ever right now. I could go to Harbor Freight, buy a $200 welder that fits in the back seat of my 1999 toyota camry. Watch KGup videos that teach me how to weld, and start a business making $1000-$1500 a week just doing repair welds. My mom dropped out of high school in 10th grade, once me and my brother were old enough she started a house cleaning business with nothing but a busted up car, brooms, mops, brushes, and ended up making lower middle class income. My cousin was having a hard time finding work because he was older, he eventually hooked up with a guy that did pool maintenence. He worked with him for a few months, then they eventually split the route, then ultimately he took over his half, then, he advertised and expanded his business by getting more accounts. Now he clears 4-5K a month comfortably and could make more but is happy where he is at. One of my best friends dropped out of high school in 11th grade, bought a harbor freight trailer and a pressure washer, and started a car detail business, 20 years later he currently makes close to 250-300K a year and his business is huge. My next door neighbor, doesnt even speak English, we communicate through beer signals and how rough our day was. He owns a landscaping business, he owns a 4 bedroom house, has a wife who doesnt work, and has 3 kids. I dont care about walmart employees, or fast food employees that make minimum wage. EVERYONE in this country has the opportunity to run their own life. If you work at Walmart or fast food and are making minimum wage, work that job, save up money and start a business that makes money. There are literally THOUSANDS of simple, cheap to start, small businesses that make living wages.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Gary Gogo , dude, did you not read the studies I have provided? There are hundreds of thousands of democratic workplaces in the United States and around the world. Thinking that in those types of workplaces the hard workers are exploited by the lazy workers, is simply not true. Statistically speaking, workers are happier, more productive, more creative, they take less sick days, there's less incidence of mental illness, suicide, Etc. The data is very clear. The Cooperative sector in the United States is expanding at an increasing rate. Who said anything about dismantling the system? Capitalist economy is one where most of the GDP is coming from privately-owned companies. If most of the GDP is coming from socially owned companies, then we have a socialist economy. It doesn't matter whether the goods and services are produced by the Socialist mode of production or the capitalist mode of production. The outputs are still sold in the market. They're still going to be lots of private businesses. The only thing is, most of those businesses will be smaller. Mom and pop pipe businesses because larger companies will not be able to compete with worker-owned companies. Obviously, if you can get 100% of your labour value working at a socially owned company, why would you work for a fraction of that at a company such as Walmart or Amazon? There's a socially on bread factory in the United States where the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 a year. That's because the own the product of their labour. A Walmart worker probably produces twice that amount of wealth with his labour but yet doesn't make much more than minimum wage. Private companies want to own the capital for the same reason that workers want to own the capital. Capitalism is literally economic feudalism. It is the idea that you can own for a living rather than actually working for a living. That's why capitalist like to joke that if you can't make money while you're sleeping then you're actually going to have to get a job. The difference between a capitalist company and a worker-owned company is the capitalists get the workers to do the work and attempt to keep most of the money for themselves. That creates a disparity between supply and demand. At the socially owned company the workers are doing their own working get to keep the full value of their labour.

      4. Gary Gogo

        @Michael Mappin I read his entire Bio, no mention of any businesses he has ever opened and operated. According to his bio, he is just another person that went to college, then turned around and taught college. I myself have been a manager of businesses, then have owned two businesses, and currently am a Forman for an excavation/ pipeline businesses. It is 100% crystal clear to me why socialism doesnt work. We have a crew of 60 guys the best guy in my crew does the amount of work of 3 of the worst guys in my crew. If we rewarded them all the same, the best guy in my crew would only work as hard as the worst guy in my crew.

      5. Gary Gogo

        @Michael Mappin If all your saying is "he just wants worker Co-OP's" then that is already completely obtainable in the current system we have. Why is he then talking about dismantling the system. That is like you not liking the current tires on your car, so instead of looking for different tires, you think the "current automobile as we know it should be completely re-designed" once again, if you want to operate a business based on socialist principles in the US, you are 100% free and clear to do it. The problem is, you can't get enough people to want to willingly do it. The hard workers that know they will be pulling most of the wait, know a turd sandwich when they see it.

    22. Wannabe Marksman

      Not do state anything you can’t bring the world’s population into it because there are way too many countries whose people can’t get wealthy because of their government

    23. James Adams

      m.kgup.info/get/lnqfqoyjgpiJeG4/video

    24. typeviic1

      The United States has a hybrid system, with a combination of capitalism and socialism.

      1. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 wrong. I understand just fine. Fuck off gaslighting Michael Mappin alt.

      2. My Health Revolution 2021

        @James Adams OK, so you don't understand what we are talking about.

      3. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 wrong. Capitalism is private ownership. Socialism is any of the government or collective forms of ownership. Mixed economies have both.

      4. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin yes it does have to do with the argument. Quit spamming your economically illiterate lies, you moron. Capitalism does not operate at the expense of workers or communities. It does not "violate economic principles." Production output isn't increasing faster than incomes. You don't even know what equilibrium is. Stop spewing Marxist nonsense.

      5. My Health Revolution 2021

        The fact is that private wage labour is legal in the USA and thereby the country is a capitalist one. In a socialist country that is not allowed.

    25. Theodore Hyczko

      Even Bernie Sanders laughed

    26. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      1. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 you understand nothing because you don't have any economic citations whatsoever. You and your Marxist moron friends don't know anything about economics or capitalism. You're projecting. You and Mappin are the shills who spam Marxist propaganda. Again, fuck off. You have added nothing of value and anyone sane can see you both for who you really are.

      2. My Health Revolution 2021

        @James Adams I understand that you are not able to see how amusing you are from the point of us that do understand how the capitalist economy really works. It's just like Homer Simpson not understanding how stupid he seems from the point of the view of the audience. I hope you get well paid. If you don't, get help.

      3. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 I understand it just fine and you're again gaslighting because you have no argument. Your Marxist nonsense WAS refuted. It was not valid then, it isn't valid now, and it isn't ever going to be valid. Again, fuck off.

      4. My Health Revolution 2021

        @James Adams If you understood anything about the economics you are living under, you would not flood such nonsense.

      5. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 wrong again dumbass. Read Bohm Bawerk. It was 100% refuted and that's why it isn't taken seriously in economics. Try learning economics and you wouldn't have this problem. The people who refuted it aren't failing to understand. You're gaslighting like Michael Mappin. Mises knew exactly what he was talking about and we have the receipts. You do not. Fuck off you Michael Mappin alt/stan.

    27. Christopher Aimi

      Just to be clear, I'm a Capitalist. kgup.info/get/gZ56Znuoa2ioYp0/video

      1. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 that would be the politician ruining things, not the business person. Thanks for outing yourself as another commie propagandist.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin you wouldn't know an argument if it hit you in the face. All you do is spam communist propaganda all day.

      3. My Health Revolution 2021

        @Michael Mappin Enjoy. I'm glad to find that someone is able to understand this kind of reasoning.

      4. Michael Mappin

        @My Health Revolution 2021 , great article! Thanks for posting. ❤

      5. My Health Revolution 2021

        @Michael Mappin Lucky me. I have seen even better arguments... ;-) (But then again, I live in Europe.) I didn't watch the whole video, just browsed it through, and it seems to me that there is not a word of the fact that owning a lot of capital gives the owner power over the democratically elected politicians: If you politicians do decisions we capitalists don't like, we move the working places out of the country and thereby ruin the economy of the country and through our main stream media we blame you for it! Chris Harman (among others) has written about this: www.marxists.org/archive/harman/1979/marxism/ch08.html

    28. Beckett

      People are flocking to the USA and capitalism and nobody is trying to get out.they have to be forced out.I could name dozens of failed / communist states. Richard can’t name one successful one.He says the evil business owners get to make all the decisions. Didn’t say they take all the risk. Didn’t say no one would be working If he didn’t have have the concept and make it work. And he doesn’t make the decisions... the market dose and we are the market.

      1. James Adams

        @Beckett FYI Michael Mappin's buddy "My Health Revolution 2021" is another one of the communist propaganda peddling morons who gaslights when he has nothing factual to add. You see, when Michael Mappin realized that he couldn't argue facts, he decided he would go to his Facebook account to summon other socialist nitwits to come in and pile on. They're obviously not too bright because you can tell who they are by their recent account join dates and immediate draw to threads where Mappin is to defend him. Well that and their blatant disregard for facts while they insult and gaslight. His buddy here is trying to say that Marx was right and obviously didn't even bother to read the refutations that I provided.

      2. Beckett

        @Michael Mappin James adams spent the the time answering your moronic argument . And he called it before you did. Your rather pitiful reputation precedes you

      3. James Adams

        @Beckett no problem. That's why I say that he's a paid shill. He spams the same wall of text even after he's been shown (and himself acknowledged) that is has broken links. He doesn't care about truth, he's a shill.

      4. Beckett

        @James Adams you called it....thanks arguing with these morons is like pounding sand

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin " And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply." Why are you still peddling this lie? It's entirely made up. At least change your copy paste garbage to reflect truth. " Here is a link to the research data " Broken link because as predicted you spam a copy paste paragraph rather than actually caring about truth. Most of the others aren't studies either. "Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times!" Deceptive since the AVERAGE is around 4 to 1. Why wouldn't you compare average to average unless you're lying to people? "For example, these assembly line workers make $65,000 a year for putting bread into a bag!" There's another lie. They aren't "putting bread into a bag" and you know it.

    29. Country Man

      Please name a successful socialist state. 100 million lists souls of the 20th century if around today would likely be capitalist supporters.

      1. James Adams

        Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      2. Michael Mappin

        The debate doesn't have anything to do with State socialism. The debate is about modes of production. The capitals mode of production versus the socially owned mode of production. That is, the mode of production that is directly owned and operated by the workers. You might actually want to listen to the videos that you're commenting on.

      3. My Health Revolution 2021

        Successful according to which criteria? The capitalist criteria?

    30. Nayo Tawken

      Without property rights there can be no Human Rights at all. The successful owner of a business constantly consults with each employee about any improvements in efficiency, security and quality of product they can advise, The smartest (and often hardest working) bosses are hugely advantaged economically because they are the smartest by far.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin see? You have no argument and run when you get shown the proof. You're a moron.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no, I argue facts. You cannot just call things whatever you want. You don't get to make definitions up to suit your agenda. You constantly do this and peddle lies, like how you were trying to call Mao's China capitalism. There is no semantics to that, it's just a lie. Quit lying. Likewise the total wealth that the COMPANY produces isn't the same as what the WORKERS are producing, and that's not semantics. You calling them the same thing to peddle Marxist nonsense isn't semantics, it's lying. It's wrong. What the worker produces at a company is only a fraction of the total value produced by the company as a whole. In addition to material costs, equipment costs, and overheads you also have the cost of financing which profits are. "| If a worker produces $1,000 worth of wealth, after expenses, with his labour, he does not get all of that money if he is an employee at a capitalist company." Wrong. This is a lie. You don't get to just subtract expenses from revenues and declare this the value created by workers you economically illiterate jackass. I explained this to you over a year ago on here and in person over a Skype video. You had no argument against it and you still don't. There is no unpaid labor. That's not my opinion, it's established economic fact. Quit pretending like this is matter of opinion. It's not. Read what Bohm Bawerk wrote and learn the time value of money you dumbass.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , you just like to argue semantics. You can attach whatever label you like. When workers own the company then they get to keep all of the wealth that the company produces. Workers that don't own the company do not get to keep all of the wealth. Do you understand? If a worker produces $1,000 worth of wealth, after expenses, with his labour, he does not get all of that money if he is an employee at a capitalist company. But, if he works at a democratic worker-owned company, then he does get the keep the full $1,000. That's the difference. That's what's being referred to is unpaid labour. You don't like to call it unpaid labour. You think the owner is Justified in taking that wealth. Well that's just your opinion. The fact of the matter is some workers want to keep all of the wealth that they produce within the company. That's just the fact of the situation. You don't actually deal with your argument. You don't actually deal with what people mean. You just like to argue semantics instead of facts.

      4. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 bla bla bla Marxist propaganda. There is no unpaid labor under capitalism you dumbass. Read Bohm Bawerk. Profits are not stolen from workers.

      5. My Health Revolution 2021

        @James Adams Blaablaablaa... Here you find what was actually said 200 years ago: www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch23.htm ""The work of management and supervision - so far as it is not a special function determined by the nature of all combined social labour, but rather by the antithesis between the owner of means of production and the owner of mere labour-power, regardless of whether this labour-power is purchased by buying the labourer himself, as it is under the slave system, or whether the labourer himself sells his labour-power, so that the production process also appears as a process by which capital consumes his labour - this function arising out of the servitude of the direct producers has all too often been quoted to justify this relationship. And exploitation, the appropriation of the unpaid labour of others, has quite as often been represented as the reward justly due to the owner of capital for his work; but never better than by a champion of slavery in the United States, a lawyer named O'Connor, at a meeting held in New York on December 19, 1859, under the slogan of "Justice for the South." ""Now, gentlemen," he said amid thunderous applause, "to that condition of bondage the Negro is assigned by Nature... He has strength, and has the power to labour; but the Nature which created the power denied to him either the intellect to govern, or willingness to work." (Applause.) "Both were denied to him. And that Nature which deprived him of the will to labour, gave him a master to coerce that will, and to make him a useful... servant in the clime in which he was capable of living useful for himself and for the master who governs him... I maintain that it is not injustice to leave the Negro in the condition in which Nature placed him, to give him a master to govern him ... nor is it depriving him of any of his rights to compel him to labour in return, and afford to that master just compensation for the labour and talent employed in governing him and rendering him useful to himself and to the society." [New York Daily Tribune, November 20, 1859, pp. 7-8. - Ed] "Now, the wage-labourer, like the slave, must have a master who puts him to work and rules over him. And assuming the existence of this relationship of lordship and servitude, it is quite proper to compel the wage-labourer to produce his own wages and also the wages of supervision, as compensation for the labour of ruling and supervising him, or ""just compensation for the labour and talent employed in governing him and rendering him useful to himself and to the society.""

    31. Grimlin king

      Yet, these guy's are each worth a million are more. Socialist like Bernie Sanders, Ben Shapiro, etc, all have their views on capitalism and it's not to say that capitalist exploit people but If anything communist regime exploits people through sweatshops, etc, like in China. The claim about the 1 percent that makes millions of dollars OK, so what exactly do you do for the global problem because If anything I heard a lot of questions about superimposed problems with capitalism on a global level but nothing to the individual. If you hate capitalism get rid of your car, your house, and anything of value. These two are a joke!

    32. MrLeonthepro

      …… but the world is run on Imperialism. Left and right are, at best wings on the same vulture. It’s just a distraction.

    33. Kusztelson

      I got impression that socialist speaker discusses ideas and the capitalist speker discusses a book.

    34. Fox64

      Would be happy to try out democratic socialism for 5 years if all who support it agree to leave the US if life is worse after said experiment is done.

      1. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin Honestly at this point its pretty honest input. Why you can't just produce a source and continue to lie and gaslight is beyond me. It looks horrible and you do a discredit to your own argument whenever anyone reads over what you write. Its rude, full of lies, and frankly outright disrespectful. Why would anyone want to believe in what you believe when you are representing that point of view.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin now fuck off.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , well thank you for your input.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin I think your doing a good enough job making a fool of yourself. You really don't need any help from me.

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin quit gaslighting and actually read what he's saying. It makes perfect sense you dumbass.

    35. Carson C

      The first audience question was a joke imo. "In a slave society, it would be perfectly allowed to run a business without slaves, but in an abolitionist society, the slave owners are ~oUtLaWeD~. 🥺Why can't we pwetty pwease just get awong?"

      1. James Adams

        @Carson C no problem.

      2. Carson C

        @James Adams very cool thank you

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin not according to me, dumbass. According to economic reality. Try reading the sources I've been giving you for over a year you moron. None of them were PragerU. This is how low you go when you're a lying shill.

      4. James Adams

        @Carson C yes, it was debunked by Bohm Bawerk.

      5. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , yeah, according to you capitalist companies never exploit their employees. 😀 you really need to stop watching those prageru videos.

    36. Jibin Dominic

      I am from kerala, a small socialist state in kerala (where communist party is Democratically elected )where both capitalist structure and Democratic structure coexist. We have self health groups as example of Democratic business model and MNC. But the situation is very different in kerala being a capitalist considered as evil and even the childrens going schools know marx. The academics is rigged by the marxist and teachers are afraid to teach capatalism.so the restrictions of other idea is a pan universal phenomenon i think.

    37. Don Allie

      Communism, which is also socialism and progressivism, is the greatest evil the world has ever seen. Do not legitimize these morons by talking with them. There is only one way to get evil stupid killers who want to be communist out of your society.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin socialism isn't just doing cooperatives. Again you're doing a motte and bailey. Your socialism makes people more dependent on the government. Quote from Richard Wolff: "the government will lend it to them." My comment makes perfect sense. How do you not know how to read basic sources? Of course there is no exploitation from capitalism and capitalism is bottom up while your socialism is from the top down. You impose your views from the government.

      2. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , Cooperative decentralize Authority. If you want to establish some kind of authoritarian hierarchy, increasing The Cooperative sector would make any sense. Democratic worker-owned companies make workers and communities less dependant upon the government and capitalist corporations. Your comment makes absolutely no sense. But that's not surprising considering how you think that capitalism is a bottom-up system and that you think there's no such thing as exploitation under capitalism. You are one weird duck. 😀

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin this is you doing another motte and bailey. The motte is you asking how worker ownership could be construed as evil. Then when you get told that worker ownership is perfectly fine and compatible with capitalism and that therefore we should keep capitalism you have no argument against this based on just worker ownership so you go to the bailey where you spew Marxist nonsense as I noted in my previous comment. Then when you get proven wrong on your lies, you resort to lying, insulting, smearing and gaslighting. The fact of the matter is that you aren't here to just promote worker ownership and you never were. Nor is Richard Wolff, and we can see that based on what he actually advocates even on this very platform. That's why you yourself admitted to me "co-ops were just the beginning" among your other authoritarian communist memes.

      4. James Adams

        Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      5. Michael Mappin

        Communism and socialism are not the same thing. And how could worker ownership possibly be construed as evil?

    38. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin wrong. I'm the one providing sources. You're the one clearly incapable of reading as you spam the same lies that have been debunked. Fuck off troll.

      2. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , you can't even read. 😀 I'm sorry. I shouldn't make fun of you.

      3. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 already addressed in the referenced material that I provided. The claims of "privatization" are countered by the fact that the state decided who would be the "owner" which made it in name only. "However, the privatization was "applied within a framework of increasing control of the state over the whole economy through regulation and political interference," That's from the Wikipedia article itself. And then there's an even longer video debunking your nonsense here too: m.kgup.info/get/lnqfqoyjgpiJeG4/video

      4. My Health Revolution 2021

        In regard of point 4) I suggest reading the Wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

    39. My Health Revolution 2021

      A comment to one of the questions... One thing worth understanding is that "socialist" and "capitalist" are not symmetrical concepts. "Socialist" means a person who is in favour of a socialist economy/society, whereas "capitalist" does not mean a person who is in favour of a capitalist economy/society. Instead, "capitalist" means a person who owns capital, no matter what kind of economy/society he is in favour of. Private ownership of capital is the hallmark of a capitalist society. Socialist society is not a capitalist society and therefore private ownership of capital in a socialist society is not allowed. This means that no-one is allowed to have the social role of a capitalist in a socialist society. In a capitalist society, on the other hand, it doesn't matter much what people think since money decides anyway and therefore it is allowed to advocate socialist views (as long as they are not advocated by too many and too loudly). As a metaphor, think of this: In anarchy any person is allowed to make any kind of "law" he wants and obey it. (ie. in a capitalist society you are allowed to play socialism with your friends as long as it doesn't affect the capitalists). But in a society ruled by law it is not allowed to do that kind of thing. (ie. in a socialist society you are not allowed to play capitalism with your friends, because it affects others, too). Does this mean that anarchy is better than a legal society? No, it doesn't. Does this mean that a capitalist society is better than a socialist society? No, it doesn't.

      1. James Adams

        Nah, capitalism is better than socialism and we have the empirical evidence to prove it.

    40. crybabyteamo

      I think both the respected professors and the respected audience with genuine questions should just shut up and let the moderator get his necessary dose of "making-my-presence-known", it seemed like his survival depended on cutting people off rudely in order to let his voice be heard.

    41. nick ty

      We have debates over things that people don't seem to realize aren't black and white. We ca never please all of the people all of the time with any system. We need to work together to find the healthy balance.

      1. James Adams

        @nick ty he never does read the responses. All he does is spam communist propaganda all day. He can't think for himself or make a single argument based on facts. This is what happens to your brain on socialism and social media.

      2. nick ty

        @Michael Mappin "That's why people are striving for socialism". I don't think you read what I said.

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin a meme isn't a source dumbass spammer.

      4. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10164783906465618&id=544325617

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no it is NOT based on exploitation. Fuck off you Marxist spammer. You've had your lies repeatedly debunked with sources on this. Read Bohm Bawerk you economically illiterate moron.

    42. wag iboto trapo 2022

      congrats richard

      1. James Adams

        He lost the debate.

    43. ABRAHAM ALVAREZ

      I like how a lot in the people in the comment section is quoting Wolff and talking about how Epstein’s arguments weren’t good enough but the voting on who won shows that 49.5% believed Capitalism won and 25.5% was undecided and only 25% thought the socialist won lol.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin how do you know that they were libertarians? Why are you stating an assumption as if it were fact? Don't you think you should try watching the video before commenting? Accusing others of thinking the Earth is flat is just you projecting since you have the religion of Marxism. Just like I said. That's because like Richard Wolff you don't have one solitary argument, just gaslighting, lying and spamming Marxist propaganda.

      2. Michael Mappin

        The audience was made up of American Libertarians. 90% of them probably think the Earth is flat.

      3. James Adams

        Richard Wolff stans do not acknowledge basic facts about reality. One of those shills by the name of Michael Mappin has been spamming commie religious mumbo jumbo for the entire year and a half since the video came out.

    44. Toby Henderson

      “Well I’m Jewish and I ended up being a sloppy journalist” 😂 I love this guy!

    45. Toby Henderson

      Yes the fundamental flaw in this mans philosophy is that you chose to be a worker or a free market capitalist. Individualism is the answer to destroy the collectivist apes!!

    46. Machuei Angoon

      Thank you for standing up for truths

    47. U V

      I haven't finished listening through the whole video yet, but I could tell this is a pretty good debate, where both side respect each other. It am very interested to hear more about the democracy in the workplace and how would that concept be implemented in the real world.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin you constantly lie, spam nonsense, gaslight, insult and then project when you get outed again as a propaganda peddling moron. Brian Unger has made arguments and backed them up. You haven't made one coherent argument and you've been spamming this video for a year and a half. You're pathetic. When are you going to read the sources when we've been providing them constantly you shill?

      2. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin well if falling into it looks like calling you a liar and then you lying then I think I am more than aware of what one is. Again how hard is it to produce a source Mike? Seriously, is gaslighting and keeping up a lie just more fun for you? You could of made a fake website by this point to help support your lie by now. Or again simply just been an adult about it and owned up to the lie.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , you wouldn't know a point if you fell over it. 😀😆

      4. James Adams

        Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      5. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin You do realize every time you fail to provide a source or make a snarky comment you further my point of people needing to watch out for you. You continuing to gaslight and lie is doing nothing for your argument. From what i have seen most people tend to call you out on your lies and pushy propaganda pretty quickly these days.

    48. Mike C

      Kk, Wolff is a serious speaker and it "blows [his] mind" that someone questions whether students are exposed enough to Marxism? That's practically all they hear! And if Marxists are not in your Economics department (because Marxism is not economics), take a walk over to your Philosophy or Sociology department some time. I believe you will be pleased, Mr Wolff.

      1. Under Story Main channel

        What

    49. Mike C

      This Wolff guy is a moron. "socialism" meanings democracy in the workplace? Patently ridiculous. I"m trying to imagine what would happen to my company if the low-skill, lower-IQ staff got the same say in the running of the company as the people who got to the top through demonstrated ability and performance. It's just absurd. Ivy League? joke.

      1. Mike C

        @James Adams So true. My favorite example of frivolous spending is the tan and nail salon. I would say the average income level of their customers is below average, and sometimes WAY below average. The same is true with the expensive and unhealthy eating habit of getting most of one's meals ready-made at a convenience store or gas station. I also suspect based on lifelong observations that expensive Harley Davidsons are driven mostly by people who don't have much in their bank account. It's partially about spending choices.

      2. Mike C

        @nottheson ofwilliam See my earlier comments. It's simply not smart to have decisions concerning the direction of a company, especially in today's complicated world, decided by everyone equally. I'm sorry, but I don't see how this isn't obvious. Is there a company that has lasted more than a week that is run like this? People go to school for years to learn management, etc. People gather skills more than others are even capable of. People earn their way into high level decision-making positions by demonstrated competency in making a company improve. And yes, people have different levels of general intelligence. Those people all have more say in a business. That's how we get an Apple, Amazon, Tesla, and not a Trabant (horrible clunker designed and built by Communists who had another type of system, and even that wasn't a system with all the employees deciding by equal vote). We've made the decision as a society to ignore any differences between voters in the political realm because of 1. fear the "strong" will take advantage of the "weak", and 2. we don't want the implications of some people getting more of a say than others, for any reason. So, yes, a person who can barely plan beyond the next moment and who needs help just getting through his or her day has the same vote in your children's future as your proverbial Harvard grad. When it comes to businesses, however, which are the reason we have advanced beyond disease-ridden feudal society with its horses and buggies, those businesses with the most competent ideas and practices advance and succeed over the others, and the least competent companies fail, and all those workers then lose their jobs. And those most-competent businesses are going to be run by the most competent decision-makers. As I alluded to in other comments, good companies respect all their employees and honor and recognize their contributions, but give the mailroom guy the same vote as the CEO in whether to acquire this other biotech firm which had this P/E ratio last year, and is this far into developing this gene-splitting technology, but also has this complicated threat from a potential competitor which must be taken apart and meticulously analyzed? Come on.

      3. James Adams

        @nottheson ofwilliam Good question! It would be prevented by not making choices to put one in a place of "living paycheck to paycheck" in the first place. The average person in the US is spending $18k on nonessential items, and something like 97% of the workforce makes more than minimum wage, so this is a matter of choices and not having no power. If the average person had no power then they'd be making minimum wage, and if it were a problem of wages as opposed to spending then the average spending wouldn't be so high for luxury items.

      4. nottheson ofwilliam

        @James Adams I agree, it is easier to leave a job than a state, and I'm happy to hear that you were not trapped in an unfair work situation. But like you said, there are boxes to tick before you have that freedom, namely you have to have a certain amount of savings and/or marketable job skills. This makes me think that anyone living paycheck to paycheck or who couldn't afford a higher degree would essentially be stuck if they found themselves in an exploitative job where they had no power. How do you think this could be prevented?

      5. James Adams

        @nottheson ofwilliam it's much more easy to disassociate from a job than a nation-state. I not only would leave such a workplace but I did. I retired early and didn't have any other job lined up, and I did that by saving and investing my money rather than spending it. It is easy for anyone to do so long as they have valuable job skills.

    50. phaserra

      The future is AI slavery, we're slowing down our future by arguing so much, we could be making machine versions of ourselves and have them serve our needs in the future. Capitalism/Socialism is just a temporary system before that takes place, personally for me I think Capitalism will get us there first.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin " For example, we could have transitioned away from fossil fuels a long time ago. Also, we could have cut working hours in half a long time ago." That's entirely made up. Why are you stating outright lies as if they were factual when you don't have any evidence to back it up? You're such a moron and a liar.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no it doesn't. Quit lying and stating your opinion as if it were fact.

      3. Michael Mappin

        Actually, capitalism stifles innovation. We should have made the transition to a type 1 civilization along time ago. Capitalism can't exist in a type 1 civilization. The more there isn't something the less it's worth. Money and possessions would have no value. Just like in Star Trek, which was Loosely based on a type II civilization, the crew of the ship couldn't be bribed by aliens offering them gold and other forms of wealth. That's because they can replicate just about anything. Capitalism is a type 0 organizational system. Extremely primitive. Capitalist class Keeps us in a state state of dependency intentionally in order to maintain the system because they benefit from it. For example, we could have transitioned away from fossil fuels a long time ago. Also, we could have cut working hours in half a long time ago. We can produce far more than we're capable of consuming. But instead, in order to maintain the system, we use fractional Reserve Banking and planned obsolescence. Even if we had a four hour work day, four-day work week, industry probably still wouldn't be able to come close to operating at 100% capacity.

    51. Frank Giallombardo

      Capitalism is, after all, the system of justice. If you don't produce, if you refuse to produce, if you choose shortcuts, if you choose to steal, if you choose to evade reality, if you choose to evade the need (your need) to use your Mind in order to thrive, Then You Will Not Thrive. You can ignore reality >> reality will not ignore you. You Will suffer the consequences of your actions even if you pretend that you don't care. Those who are poor because of these actions they have taken --- it's Their problem. Maybe there'd still be some charity to help them, but it's certainly not the focus. The people who are poor through no fault of their own --- that's where the charity would step in. That's where people who deserve and would get help. That's justice. That's capitalism -- a system of justice. --- Yaron Brook

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no one is enslaving you under capitalism either. Fuck off you propaganda peddling shill.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin wrong moron. Capitalism has freedom for everyone. Not just the 1%. Capitalism isn't the opposite of freedom for anyone. You have no proof of that and got it from Gravel, a Marxist propaganda outlet. " 80% of the world's population subsists on $10 a day or less." What was the percent before capitalism? Did socialism make that better? No, of course not. "One child dies every 15 seconds from starvation " In socialist countries you dumbass, not capitalist ones. Go ahead and look up the most starvation by country. You won't find capitalism there at all. " The vast majority of Americans can't even afford a family on a single income." Wrong. You keep spamming this lie and you have no source. "That's why a labor-saving technology doesn't reduce working hours. " This is a lie. Why don't you actually open the source that I already provided above on working hours? "There's a socially on bread factory in the United States for the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 a year. That's because the workers on the product of their labour." That's another lie. They make that much because they sell organic bread in California, have 15 years work experience and invested thousands of dollars. It has nothing to do with socialism. Show me a capitalist firm with people who have 15 years experience in California and you'd see them earning just as much. But you don't care about truth because you spam propaganda. Now fuck off until you have read the sources and stopped lying.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Frank Giallombardo , yeah, it has extreme freedom for the top 1%. But for the vast majority of people, capitalism is the opposite of freedom. 80% of the world's population subsists on $10 a day or less. One child dies every 15 seconds from starvation even though we can produce far more of them are capable of consuming and throw away 1.2 billion tons of food annually in order to artificially maintained prices in the capitalist Market. Industry can't even come close to running at 100% capacity. The vast majority of Americans can't even afford a family on a single income. Since 1950 the percentage of GDP going to workers has steadily been decreasing. Capitalism is not Freedom. It's slavery. When you do not own the product of your labour, then you're nothing more than human capital. Everything you produce belongs to someone else. That's why a labor-saving technology doesn't reduce working hours. A human being is basically nothing more than human livestock. For example, if you give a cow bovine growth hormone in order to double milk production, does a cow get to work half as many hours? Does the cow get twice the amount of milk? No. All the milk belongs to the farmer. Likewise, it doesn't matter if a worker produces $70,000 worth of wealth of his labour or 70 million dollars. Whatever he produces belongs to someone else. That person will then pay the worker as little as possible. There's a socially on bread factory in the United States for the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 a year. That's because the workers on the product of their labour. That's the difference between freedom and wage slavery.

      4. Frank Giallombardo

        @Michael Mappin You refer to it as Feudalism, but it is the one economic system that has Freedom, and it can only exist in a free society. Socialism eventually leads to coercion and then dictatorship. Democracy can't work in economics because the voters who lost, or who are in the minority, will be unhappy and want to fight back.

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin socialism is economic feudalism. Of course it's not a system of justice. People like you are liars and shills.

    52. Martin Li

      The problem lies on human behaviour. If we jump from capitalism to another "new system", we need to be aware that someone will try to take advantage of any flaws in the system for their own benefit. Capitalism had good things as well as bad things. It can been seen as a technological revolution. However, big corporations had many unethical practices where they could get away with due to their power. I agree that we need to evolve into something else but I dont know if socialism is the answer.

      1. James Adams

        Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden) I keep posting this because he keeps spamming outright lies and he has no argument once this is posted because he cannot back up his nonsense.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no it's not. Socialism has not ever decentralized anything. Study basic history and economics. Oh no wait, you're too stupid to read.

      3. Michael Mappin

        That's why it's better to have socialism. Socialism decentralizes power. It deals with bottom-up and horizontal forms of organization. Capitalism and other top down, undemocratic systems of organization are the ones you have to be worried about when it comes to people taking advantage. That's because those are the top have massive amounts of control over those underneath. There's a reason why most things are made in China and why wages are so low even though we can produce far more than we could ever consume. Under the capitalist system most of the capitals owned by the richest members of society. By default, they control the economy and the government. It's their government. It represents them. Workers have to fight for Privileges and protections under the law. Most of the citizens do not want to spend tax money on the military. Most citizens don't want to continuously engage in wasteful wart. Most citizens when to transition from fossil fuels and do something about global warming. Most citizens don't want to bail out Banks or fraudulent capitalist companies. Most citizens didn't want to ship their jobs and production to China. The capitalists are the ones that get what they want because it is their system. They would have moved jobs to China a long time ago. They were trying to implement NAFTA for years. But the citizens offered too much resistance. There was too many protests. Likewise, we would still have the 18-hour day, 6 1/2 day work week if it were not for so many people willing to fight and die for better working conditions. The capitalist class has fought against the abolition of child labour, environmental regulations, better working conditions, consumer safety standards, Etc. Capitalism is the economic system of parasites. It allows the minority to control the majority and expropriate most of the wealth from resources and labour.

    53. Neogenesis

      I wholeheartedly agree with one of these men, but I won't say who. Having said that, I don't believe either one of them made a outstanding point of defending their preferred economic theories. I get that it's difficult to instruct/teach about entire economic theories in an hour long debate... but neither one of them spent enough time on showing how things work in the "real world", as opposed to how it COULD work. Just my opinion. However, this country is in desperate need of more of these debates.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin try addressing your lies above dumbass. You're the only one with work to do.

      2. Neogenesis

        @Michael Mappin Your guess also doesn't equal fact. And your necessity for everyone to agree with you is quite humorous and pitiful at the same time.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Neogenesis , yeah, well then I guess you still have some work to do.

      4. Neogenesis

        @Michael Mappin Yeah....I know the arguments...I've studied them for decades. It doesn't change my opinion that neither one of them presented their premise well. Despite your dissertation

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin wrong dumbass. I have defined capitalism in multiple other threads from the dictionary. You on the other hand got it wrong. Here's you getting the definition of capitalism wrong in action. Want to address how you think you're right and the dictionary is wrong? You said and I quote: "Traditional socialists such as wolf don't even refer to State ownership as socialist. They call it capitalist. And that's because the state is in control of the capital." This is a lie. You've been linked to the dictionary definitions. Want them again? Here from literally searching Google for the definitions because you keep spamming this lie: capitalism - an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state socialism - any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods Don't try to sit there and lecture me on YOUR ignorance. Of course capitalism is bottom up. That's nothing like flat Earth. You're the flat Earther, dumbass. You're a Marxist moron. I didn't once cite PragerU as a source. You're again lying. Now address your lies above dumbass.

    54. charles wilkins

      All Communist regimes try to remove God, religious authority from the populations, state wants control of everything, sound like the Democrats and Biden? The socialism agenda that is now driving our country is an attack on God, Country our unborn, and the constitution. The people leading this parade are traitors to everything our Country has stood for since inception. They are power crazed atheists who have sold their souls for money and power, Just like the thousands of dead who voted for Biden but did not, the thousands of aborted souls who wanted to be born but were not, and the thousands of seniors who were forced to die before their time are all waiting for the Biden and his chosen group of America's haters.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin LOL you're such a moron. You were trying to say that Joe Biden is right wing and now you're lying again trying to call Jesus a socialist when he never did such a thing. Try reading the parable of the workers in the vineyard instead of spamming lies.

      2. Michael Mappin

        What does Joe Biden have to do with socialism? And what does God have to do with the Socialist mode of production? There are hundreds of thousands of worker-owned companies in United States. The workers are doing their own work. So what relevance does God have? I think it's safe to say that Jesus Christ would certainly prefer the Socialist mode of production over the capitalist mode of production. At all Communists are not anti-god. Look at how long the Amish have been practicing communism.

    55. fua faatiga

      time to move away from Sunday the Mark of the PEAST, NUMBER OF A MAN 666, BEAST. dragon GODS NUMBER 7 THE MARK SABBATH, EZEKIEL, 20,20,, Call FOR YOU AND ME , REVELATION, 18, 4, JOHN, 14, 6, FAITH AND KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, REVELATION, 14, 12

    56. fua faatiga

      JESUS DIE FOR YOU AND ME,,,,JESUS LOVE YOU FOREVAR, JESUS SAID TO YOU NOW CAME NOW,, LISTEN JESUS KEEP THE SABBATH,, LUKE,4,16 WAR CAME, GODS PEOPLE WORSHIP ON SABBATH,,,,,,,VS,,,,,,,DRAGON PEOPLE WORSHIP ON SUNDAY, SUNDAY THE MARK OF THE PEAST,,, SABBATH MARK OF A GOD PEOPLE, EZEKIEL, 20, 20, FAITH TO JESUS AND KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS, REVELATION, 14, 12, JAMES, 2, 10, 19, 20 21, 22, 24 26, LAST CALL FOR YOU , REVELATION, 18, 4, REVELATION, ,

    57. tnc lovee

      nein das marx bose

    58. William McNicoll

      Professor Wolff is stunning in his failure to understand reality. Amazing that he’s kept on staff as a professor.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin yes wrong. You've been proven wrong on your nonsense over and over again. Neither you nor Richard Wolff know anything about reality as shown by how much you lie and spew nonsense on a daily basis. Learn economics and address your lies, clown. No one cares about your Michael Moore spam. Your socialist garbage hasn't ever produced more freedom, prosperity or equality.

      2. Michael Mappin

        He was wrong? You don't think the Socialist mode of production provides more equality, freedom and prosperity for workers and communities? I don't know,. I thought being your own boss would provide you with more freedom. I thought have equal voting power would just give people greater equality. And if you have a successful company that's owned by the workers, I would have thought that would provide the workers with greater Prosperity considering they would be the ones that would get all of the wealth. I don't know. Seems Tumi like Richard Wolff has a pretty good grasp on reality. These workers seem to cooperate everything he says. There are literally hundreds of testimonial videos like this on KGup. kgup.info/get/Xo2Yk3vbqZxtm4c/video

      3. James Adams

        Even more stunning after people outed him as lying on his own doctoral dissertation.

    59. Under Story Main channel

      Oh god two bastards in one comment section. Stay away from James adams and micheal mapping

      1. James Adams

        @My Health Revolution 2021 no he doesn't. You're one of his lackeys pushing communist propaganda.

      2. Under Story Main channel

        @My Health Revolution 2021 ok it's just he has over a thousand comments. It's just a lot

      3. My Health Revolution 2021

        Actually Michael Mapping has good points and he presents them well. Obviously he has thought about these things.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin Wow word play instead of just producing a source. Like I said before Mike, its time to grow up. Either produce a source or just admit you lied. Its not hard, sure you may take a bit of a ego hit but isn't that far easier than continuing to hide behind a lie. So again, lets have the source for Wolf's multiple buisnesses or just admit you lied.

      5. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , one Mike? How about three or four Mikes?

    60. Gluemonkey

      The witty charming capitalist vs the grumpy, weirdly stern and rehearsed as if he's reciting his favourite "Marx at the First International outbursts" (greatest hits), hothouse flower - socialist.

      1. Gluemonkey

        @James Adams "Who's doing mass this Sunday?" "........" "Oh no not Father Wolff!!" "Yup" "I don't mind the fire and brimstone stuff, it can be really entertaining but he's shit at it"

      2. James Adams

        @Gluemonkey absolutely, and he smears the people who debunk his nonsense just like his followers do. When they cannot argue based on historical and economic facts, they insult you and try to tear you down.

      3. Gluemonkey

        @James Adams He really does talk like a jaded priest

      4. James Adams

        @Gluemonkey every time Richard Wolff goes places he acts like he's trying to preach to people, and that's because his Marxism is a religion and not economic reality.

      5. Gluemonkey

        @James Adams The capitalist talks like he has shit to do, places to be....even in his late 70s. The socialist is slow, grumpy, unpleasant, typically humourless. He looks good for a man approaching 80 though.

    61. Prashant J Singh

      The moderator needs to be neutral. We don't want to hear his views!

    62. phillycp3

      Socialism has never worked anywhere ever 💯

      1. James Adams

        @natalia more than with socialism. We have the empirical evidence to prove it. More free economies (those with more private property rights) have more equality than those without.

      2. natalia

        @James Adams there is no such thing as equality when it comes to capitalism

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin we do know you're a liar and that socialism doesn't produce as much prosperity, equality or freedom as capitalism. Your lies are listed above and you have no argument, just shill spam.

      4. Michael Mappin

        The debate is about two different modes of production. The Socialist mode of production and the capitalist mode of production. There are hundreds of thousands of democratic, worker-owned companies in United States and around the world. We know exactly how well they work compared to capitalist companies.

      5. James Adams

        Correct. In before shill Michael Mappin tries to proclaim it works and expands purchasing power without any evidence to support it whatsoever. Why do I bring this up? Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

    63. sgtjohnson49

      How can you criticize crony capitalism and be a libertarian lol The one neccesary leads to the other.

      1. James Adams

        No it doesn't dumbass.

    64. Grey Ang

      Dude, nobody gives a shit if you identify as male, nobody asked. Just ask your question.

    65. Grey Ang

      ...he said the counting of the dead bodies for socialism matters more because those governments killed their own people? How the fuck is that worse than governments waging war or the World Wars or the colonization example that Richard gave? So the Brits killing millions of people in Kenya is totally okay? How the fuck is that more okay??

    66. Matt Vollmer

      I'd love to hear the millions of 3rd world people who had their mild social democracies crushed through US violence talk about how "free" capitalism has been for them. It seems like they didn't have much of a choice. Check out Noam Chomsky for the historical events that make Wolff's arguments way more poignant.

      1. Brian Unger

        Hard to stand on those words while you use a computer created by a capitalist company on a platform that is also capitalist, instead of doing something about it. Sure there are a lot of people who are far less fortunate but your going to blame an economic system for that instead of those were in power at the time? There is nothing inherently wrong with capitalism. The idea that profit is wrong is welll.... wrong. How people use that profit on the other hand maybe. There are plenty of people who use what they earn for good. Sometimes that's almost all they use it for. Do they get to live a more comfortable life, sure. But that is everyone's goal. How are you going to say the small business owner who works his butt off to make his company thrive, still pays his employees well but not as much as him so he can send his kid to college evil? I think you need to take a better look at the system as a whole instead of looking at the small amount of people who use it badly.

      2. James Adams

        Noam Chomsky is a liar and US government doing stuff is not capitalism.

    67. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

    68. Proud Apostate

      I actually learned about socialism, communism, and capitalism in economics my Sophomore year of high school, I had a really good economics teacher who taught me a lot about how to manage money and personal finance. She also wasn't shy about critiquing all 3 systems either.

      1. James Adams

        @Shwn 750 'b-but that wasn't rEaL cOmMunIsM!!"

      2. Shwn 750

        there’s never been a communist system. How can she critique a system that never got off the ground?

      3. Brian Unger

        Learning how to manage your finances is one of the largest overlooked parts of our education. Most of us have to learn it the hard way and some never learn how to do so very well at all. Its life-changing. You got an amazing teacher.

      4. James Adams

        That's great!

    69. yys msd

      Dear moderator, everyone hates you. I speak for everyone. Sincerely,

    70. Frebin george

      Socialism is what capitalism understand?

    71. Erik Cordova

      Listening to Wolff was a pain in the ass.

      1. James Adams

        He's just as dishonest and condescending everywhere else he goes. That's Marxists for you. Religious nutjobs who spam outright lies and think they're educating you on something when in reality they are the ones who have no idea what they're talking about. There's a Richard Wolff stan in the comments named Michael Mappin who does the exact same thing. Dude is a complete moron who spams nothing but communist propaganda all day long.

    72. Wec19k

      Abolish Capitalism!!

      1. James Adams

        @Wec19k LOL nice troll dumbass.

      2. Brian Unger

        @Wec19k the need to show off and your lack of ability to live up to quoting yourself is pretty evident you are not who you claim to be. A respectable business owner would have been able to show his quote telling another person of the companies he stated. Especially someone in finance. Good try though. It was fun watching you lie and try to get away with it.

      3. Wec19k

        @Brian Unger my hot 21 year old girlfriend is about to come over, keep grinding homie, maybe one day you will get to my level.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Wec19k again so no comment about companies? And never met a CEO that wastes time all day on KGup let alone a CEO who doesn’t know basic definitions in economics.

      5. Wec19k

        @Brian Unger I am doing research actually, but at my level (CEO) I make as few decisions as possible and make them high quality. I pay people to handle the accounts homie.

    73. roniepao

      How about socialism for noob players and capitalism for pro players.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin workers are already independent. They are free to choose an employer or start their own business. That's why you and Richard Wolff don't have one solitary argument against capitalism. It allows the free choice while socialism doesn't. You cannot argue against facts, and you don't deal in facts but falsehoods. It's why you're still spamming propaganda and religious nonsense like saying that workers don't get the full value of their labor when all of economics proves you to be a liar.

      2. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin most people prefer to not have their time wasted by impulsive liars like you.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , yeah, well if you prefer capitalism, that's fine. Some workers want to be independent. They don't want to be in a situation where they have to take orders and be under someone's thumb. If you don't like socialized workplaces, don't work at one.

      4. James Adams

        Because most of us "noobs" still prefer capitalism because it works while socialism doesn't.

    74. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

    75. Andreas Lindmark

      Great speakers, less great moderator.

    76. deadinside95

      The capitalist dude’s logic is literally comparable to saying: “oh, slaves could’ve been free, but they obviously didn’t want it since they didn’t do anything.” I wonder what’s keeping them from doing so dude?

      1. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin Well you know since I am not as braindead as a rock like yourself I know where my limitations are. So I won't be writing a book anytime soon. But I do know how to cite sources and look up basic definitions. So proving all your points wrong and calling you out on all your lies is still easy enough to do. I'll just keep doing that when I have the time. Again pretty easy when you lie compulsively. lol

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin quit trying to smear others you dumbass. Make a real argument with facts instead of Marxist religious nonsense.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , yeah, good job. You should become a teacher. Write your own textbooks.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin Oh I never said you understand arguments. Just that you finally understood that employees take home a 100% of their labor. Did you hit your head? Your reading comprehension seems to have dropped even lower than normal. Granted you still managed to not cite any of the sources I keep asking you for so I guess i should have known you were not very good at it it the first place.

      5. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , yeah, you got me. We sure do understand arguments. 😀

    77. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours, and when he gets proven wrong he gaslights and hurls insults like a child. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      1. James Adams

        @Under Story Main channel kinda ironic seeing socialist dumbasses respond with the EXACT same non-argument every time they come to spew nonsense but cannot engage with one word of the content and lies spewed by their socialist buddy.

      2. Under Story Main channel

        Kind of ironic seeing you spam the same thing again and again

    78. can yildiz

      there is no debate here. capitalism is a fundamentally undemocratic system which extends economic anxiety into the root of every part of life. the facts show that very clearly. moreover, we can see that capitalism just can't last. it is not sustainable at this rate.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin I still have the list of things I've debunked you on and with the sources. You still have no sources and repeatedly run from this list of lies that you spam because you cannot argue against it. Here it is again. Try bringing a source if you think any of what you said is true. Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin what motive to lie? The motive is you going to every Richard Wolff video to stan for him. The motive is you being a religious commie nutjob who spams false information after you've been proven wrong with sources you dumbass.

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin yes debunked with sources you propagndistic asshole. Nothing you've said is facts. Capitalism isn't exploiting labor. That's a fact. I've proven it over and over again with sources. You don't have any sources. The only thing NOT rational is you proclaiming your nonsense to be factual just because you repeat it and put the word "obviously" in front of it. You don't have any sources to back up anything you've claimed in this entire thread. No one is underpaid. No, that's not irrational, it's factual. Learn economics.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin Great question why do you? But you do so anyway. Its not an assumption to say you lie when you do. If your not prove me wrong. Give us a source showing Wolf owns multiple buisnesses. If you can't then your a liar.

      5. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , and what motive do you think I have to lie? Do you really think I care whether or not you eat broccoli? Do you really think I care whether or not you work at a cooperative? Your problem is that you make too many assumptions. You need to stop projecting your own preconceived ideas onto other people. I don't care what you think, what you believe or where you work.

    79. Mario F.

      If all of my marxist professors spoke like the pro-socialist gentleman I would have paid a bit more attention at class. I'm still a capitalist, great debate.

    80. sey wut

      ...in a capitalist economy, self determination, competition and innovation is encouraged which results in WINNERS (hard work, smarts, best and great ideas, reward$, gain$, just compensation) and LOSERS (whining entitled lazy stupid bastards, trouble makers) ...In a socialist and communist economy, reliance on the CROOKED tyrant dictator corrupt mob rule "robinhood" government REIGNS which runs the day to day life of the weak dumbass underlings "MOST" are low life no ambition, lazy "kumbaya" don't worry be happy pot smoking slave LOSERs

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no, Gene Epstein the capitalist was NOT saying that same thing. Did you not watch the video or do you intentionally lie just to shill for Richard Wolff? " It doesn't matter whether you borrow money from a bank or the government." Yes, this DOES matter you moron, and it's been repeatedly explained to you WHY it matters.

      2. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin "It doesn't matter whether you borrow money from a bank or the government. If you borrow money from the government and use it to buy a house, the house doesn't belong to the government. You're such a nitwit." - Michael Mappin Wow the contradictions just come out of you in waves these days don't they lol.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , if you borrow money and you buy a home, the home belongs to you. Yeah, if don't make your payments, then obviously you can have your home repossessed. None of that negate the fact that worker-owned companies are not state-owned companies. When the state owns the company, they get to decide what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, Etc. That's why workers prefer to own their own companies instead of the capitalist or the state. Yeah, obviously it would be better not to borrow money, either from the government or the Bank. But if you don't have any other choice, you do what you have to do. Not only can't most people afford to start throwing business, they can't afford to buy a car without borrowing money. My parents bought their house with cash. Good luck doing that today. Anyway, worker cooperatives don't have anything to do with the government. Worker cooperatives make communities and workers less dependant upon the government. Not more.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin wow you truly know nothing. If you borrow money then you do not own what you used to buy it with. They can take it from you as collateral. Calling him a nitwit when this is a fundamental truth on how loans work is hilarious. LIE MUCH hahahahahaha

      5. Michael Mappin

        @James Adams , Richard Wolff said that he feels that people should be able to borrow money from the government in certain situations. Capitalists say the same things. It doesn't matter whether you borrow money from a bank or the government. If you borrow money from the government and use it to buy a house, the house doesn't belong to the government. You're such a nitwit.

    81. Роман

      "Paradise of the rich is created from the hell of the poor" Victor Hugo

    82. Bryan Melton

      ARM AND ARM WITH UNCLE JOE. JOE BIDEN

    83. Bryan Melton

      THE SOCIALIST RICHARD WOLF WANTS U TO BUY HIS BOOK HAHAHAHA LOL

    84. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

    85. Tariq Muhammad

      Had a little respect for Wolfe until he disrespected Trump by referring to him as 'orange'. His form of socialism is no good for me. If he can be that disrespectful toward the president of the U.S. just think how one would be treated under his form of government control.

      1. Tariq Muhammad

        @Michael Mappin Do you believe cooperatives will not experience conflicts of interest? Do you think cooperatives will never have splinter groups? cooperatives are like bands that start out but as the bands grows in popularity it's always someone(s) who believe they have a better vision in the direction the band should go. Same with cooperatives. Ton'e Toni Tony is a band that started as a cooperative and ended as one member surviving,

      2. Tariq Muhammad

        @Michael Mappin And my point is, workers do that already, form cooperatives because they do not want to work for others, even though, in a sense they do, because they are working with each other. Why would I need a socialist government for businesses that form from a group of people not wanting to work for someone else?

      3. Tariq Muhammad

        @Michael Mappin People would be telling me how to run my business because it's community based. I hire the employees from my community to work in my business. Under Socialism, I would have to give those employees equal share of my business which means decision making. If I want to sell my business to you, Why would I need my workers approval?

      4. Tariq Muhammad

        @Michael Mappin Give us an example of your community based socialism that absolves the Federal, State, and local governments from its affairs as it relates to workers. Than.

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin how about instead of lying you fuck off.

    86. Tariq Muhammad

      Cray this was done in 2019 and today under socialism in America freedom of speech is being stifled by Big Tech companies under a minority of government control like Nancy Pelosi. Socialism put Biden in office over the people in a Capitalist society. Give me Capitalism or give me death.

    87. Robert Williamson

      Honestly. Most the East is Communist. We must kick them square in the balls. At least the ones that are here on my soil.

      1. Chris1z1

        Also, if you think assaulting (Asian? Hard to know what tf East means) people helps prevent communism, you’re literally your own worst enemy. You’re just letting yourself be a pawn in propaganda for communists.

      2. Chris1z1

        You’re a moron. Honestly.

    88. Fuze

      The debate results seem like some bullshit to me.

      1. James Adams

        Cope.

    89. Tino

      Wow, this didn’t age well for Wolf.

    90. Benjamin Roosevelt

      Epstein makes an absolute laughing stock out of "Professor" Wolff!! Wolff is a joke!!

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin wrong. Gene Epstein presented multiple arguments and you just dismissed them. Nothing of what you said is "obvious" or backed up by statistics or facts or common sense. Being the boss isn't more freedom per se. Voting is not more equality. Workers already keep all of the wealth that their labor produces. Socialism has not ever expanded purchasing power. Venezuela has everything to do with Richard Wolff's socialism. Literally every word of what you're saying here is a lie.

      2. James Adams

        Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      3. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin no idea huh? Lol your such a joke. Just so everyone else can see let’s go over your list of lies that you can’t site sources for: your a business owner, Wolf owns multiple business, Amazon didn’t get sued for breaking labor laws, Mondragon's annual income, company you “mixed up” for Mondragon's income, and labor incomes. Good list that you somehow don’t remember even though I remind you of it often and yet you still haven’t provided sources.

      4. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , I have no idea what you're talkin about. What are you babbling on now about?

      5. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin I would say sourcing a quote from your debate partner where he contradicts himself several times is pretty good and makes Wolf seem like a joke. Kinda like you and all your lies. Or would you like to actually provide a source to your business and the multiple businesses You claim Wolf owns? My favorite contradiction about Wolf is how he supports Amazon.

    91. Benjamin Maciel

      The issues with socialism is who actually divides everything lol... Why do politicians gets benzs and we get civics??? lol

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin it had everything to do with state socialism. You're a liar. Richard Wolff himself said it: "the government will lend it to them." You don't know anything about economics and we have shown that through your repeated lies and ignorant statements which you have no evidence to support.

      2. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin we definitely know you don’t. Proven as you think the state has nothing to do with business and since you lied about being a business owner that point gets further proven. It’s ok though. You could easily take the time to read a book instead of trying to learn by watching videos.

      3. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , no, I don't know if thing about economics. 😀 either does Richard Wolff, apparently.

      4. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin how after all this time do you not understand that the state and economics are always linked? Do you not know anything about economics

      5. Michael Mappin

        The debate didn't have anything to do with State socialism. It didn't have anything to do with the government. The type of socialism being discussed in the video makes workers and communities less dependant upon the government. So why are you talking about politicians?

    92. James Adams

      Michael Mappin is a lying Marxist shill who spams propaganda for a living. He literally blamed capitalism for the Great Leap Forward under communist China. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year with outright lies and propaganda, and he does not care about truth. He'll likely be spamming the same lies today in reply to top level comments here within hours. Here are a list of just some of his other lies: 1. He claimed that production has increased more than incomes. He has been repeatedly shown that this is wrong. (source 1 see "debunking the productivity-pay gap") (source 2 see "Heritage productivity and compensation") (source 3 see Reddit thread on bad economics titled "in EPI we trust") 2. He claimed that wages haven't kept up with inflation. This is in his copy pasted shill paragraph claiming that "capitalism erodes purchasing power" which was shown and explained to him numerous times to be wrong. This too has been cited numerous times and he keeps lying even after being given the source proving him wrong. (source 4 see "Econlib real wage myth") (source 5 see "FRED real compensation") 3. He claimed that people are working more hours over time. That was debunked and he kept claiming it with the source right in front of him. The facts show that people are working fewer hours over time as well. He's still refusing to acknowledge how this benefit has been passed along to workers because he isn't interested in the facts. He has a narrative. (source 6 see Wikipedia article on "working hours" particularly in the US) (source 7 see Our World in Data article on working hours) 4. He claimed that the Nazis weren't socialists. (source 8 see Eric July (Youngrippa59) video on YT for "Nazis were socialists" (source 9 see Mises article on "yes the Nazis were socialists") 5. He claimed that Joe Biden was on the right wing. (source 10 see wikipedia article on "political positions of Joe Biden") (source 11 see executive orders from Joe Biden)

      1. James Adams

        @Maksie0 why don't you gain some intelligence you socialist dumbass? The last time you got debunked on this you got your feelings hurt and ran away from the debate.

      2. Brian Unger

        @Maksie0 that was a very well thought out insult lol. How old are you? Why even bother wasting your time writing that?

      3. Maksie0

        Why don't you just ask him out already?

      4. James Adams

        He's also running from debate and spamming insults because he knows that he's caught in lies that even he cannot defend with facts. Guess what Michael? I'm not going to stop calling out your lies until you grow up and admit it then stop lying.

    93. John Templeton

      Wolff is utterly despicable.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin like I said you'd run from the debate and bring ZERO sources and ZERO arguments.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin see? Everyone that isn't a socialist is calling out your lies.

      3. John Templeton

        @Michael Mappin You're a lying sack of shit. If you wan't to start a collective you're free to do so already. You don't need any kind of systematic change to start a collective. Castro played the same trick on the Cubans, and then after a few years when his power was solidified he showed his true colors. Nobody believes you. Go crawl back under the rock you came from you piece of trash.

      4. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin how about instead of insults you bring sources you dumbass? Oh that's right because you don't have any. You run from debate just like you ran away from Skype when I wanted to record you responding to the blatant lies you spam on here on a daily basis.

      5. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin why are you still trying to peddle the lie that socialism is bottom up when the system is built on the state from the top down and Richard Wolff even admitted it? Why are you still trying to claim that capitalism is top down when you don't even know what that means? A contractual arrangement is not top down you dumbass.

    94. James Adams

      Socialism is one of the most destructive and wasteful systems ever created. It is economic feudalism. Under socialism the wealth you produce is robbed by the state, but under capitalism you get the full value of your labor which is the wage. Socialism is for parasites, whereas capitalism promotes freedom and prosperity. That's not an opinion, it's a matter of public record.

    95. tost :3

      epstine rly hitting us with the iphone vuvuzela 100 trillion dead every chance he gets

      1. James Adams

        @tost :3 you made the claims about data, dumbass. I don't have to break down YOUR source. You do. I gave you the actual definitions of socialism and capitalism. You're still lying and spewing nonsense.

      2. James Adams

        @tost :3 "if a worker takes $100 of material and turns it into $200 of items and they earn less than $100 then they aren’t getting paid 100% of their labour." Wrong, because material isn't the only source of value. Profits are not made from labor you idiot. Read Bohm Bawerk.

      3. Brian Unger

        @tost :3 Hahah wow you are really folding in on yourself here. One your wrong. Your voting power being 4x is wrong. It never favors a state with a lower population. Do you know why Wyoming is not considered a swing state and no money goes into campaigning there? Because 3 votes makes 0 difference thus proving what I said earlier. You would have to win most of the midwest to make up for losing California and even then you would still likely be short. So really, and proven Wyoming's votes are worth nothing. Truly nothing. And your right its not democratic and for good reason. Because people are not informed. We just choose to give votes to people who are based on population. I already said that. "Correct we do. But thats why we have electoral colleges. To make sure the uninformed don't have as much of a sway. " - Brian Unger The same reason we have an electoral college is the same reason letting a janitor have the same vote as a marketing director is a bad idea. The owner will also likely treat those two employees as an electoral college. Janitor 1 vote, marketing director 5. Also I like how you just gave up on the other arguments after I proved you wrong and provided sources. Still waiting on your sources by the way.

      4. tost :3

        @Brian Unger the electoral votes favours states with lower population because the states with lower population have more electoral college votes per person. you cant get around that. a vote from a person in Wyoming is worth 4x as much as in California. i have not said anything incorrect about the electoral college. this system is undemocratic. you are uninformed

      5. Brian Unger

        @tost :3 Oh I get it you don't know how electoral voting works. This is making a lot more sense. Ok. Lets start from the very bottom and go up. Then we will check who is braindead. The more population you have the more electoral votes you get. This is based on how many votes are available. So bigger states with bigger populations where more people vote has more to lose or gain based on a vote. The president and regulations are decided by those votes. For the president, he/she needs to hit an overall number of electoral votes, not population votes. Currently, Wyoming only has 3 votes. California has 54. Nor is that purely done on population. Its actually done on population by district I believe. Colorado is actually a good example of this. While we could have a lot more votes due to our size we get less because most of our population is centered in a small area. So do you want to keep up with the insults or do you now understand how that works and how your original statement that i quoted was super wrong? An apology for the insult is also in order. Waiting on your source and other arguments as well.

    96. tost :3

      that guy in the audience yelling “stop whining” at wolff as he describes injustices in society is unbelievably brainwashed

    97. D Lawrence

      It truly is amazing how capitalist never notice all the socialism for corporations because they rule capitalism. In the 1900s, we had more pure capitalism with no government oversight, corporations poisoned water, 12 hour work days, children labor, no minimum wage. The dead people it creates... I mean what was Vietnam, Korea, and middle east with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, and not to mention the central and South America from Brazil, Agentina, Chile, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Columbia, and so on that has killed millions of people.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin aren't you done embarrassing yourself with lies and getting debunked constantly? It's obvious that you never read the sources and have no intent to engage with facts. You're a moron who just keeps hurling insults and gaslighting when you get proven wrong. Take the L you fucking loser. Your communist idiocy is wrong and never has been taken seriously in history or economics.

      2. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin Because you stated it. We will just add it to the list of lies you have already pumped out then and can not provide a source for. Watching you fail to give sources and try to weasel your way out of lies is always entertaining.

      3. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin so you don't have any sources proving what you claim, just like you don't have any evidence to support worker exploitation, eroded purchasing power, claims about working hours, or the hundreds of other lies you spam. It's not Brian just THINKING that you and Richard Wolff are liars. We have brought the receipts over and over and over again. You have not one single counter argument because you're too busy spamming lies.

      4. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , why would I take the time to look up information regarding Richard Wolff businesses just to satisfy your curiosity? Are you out of your mind? Who cares what you believe. It has no relevance. There are all kinds of debates with Richard Wolff where he discusses his businesses. If you want to know more about his personal life, you do the research. You look up the information. You watch the debates. If you think Richard Wolff is lying, okay. Who cares. But what does that have to do with the argument regarding the Epstein wolf debate? Nothing. If you really believe that being an employee is better than being an owner, what is your argument?

      5. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin If something is wrong with me than produce the source showing Wolf has multiple buisness. You have yet to do so. Until you do you are lying. I did the research and he has only started one. Wow trying to use my own burn. Super original mike. Maybe instead of rotting your brain watching videos all day you can actually educate yourself and learn a bigger vocabulary lol.

    98. uncommon logic

      Communist and socialist perspectives are good for only honing systems to focus on workers rights and safety. In itself as a system of government it (socialism) is doomed to fail.

      1. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin "Government intervention the capitalist system would collapse almost immediately." Lie. Why do you keep stating your wrong opinions as if they were facts? You can't tell the difference between the two? Of course not because you're still lying and claiming that socialism is bottom up when it isn't and that capitalism is top down when it isn't. You're also lying when you claim that workers aren't getting the full value of their labor. That's not a factual statement. It's a lie. It's been proven to you to be a lie. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're an economically and historically and politically illiterate jackass.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin you keep spamming nonsense when you have no argument or facts. Spamming the same lies you just got debunked on and then gaslighting isn't an argument nor is it citatations, and Howard Zinn isn't a citation you moron. Also you clearly don't even get basic definitions right. Watch: "Traditional socialists such as wolf don't even refer to State ownership as socialist. They call it capitalist. And that's because the state is in control of the capital." This is a lie. You've been linked to the dictionary definitions. Want them again? Here from literally searching Google for the definitions because you keep spamming this lie: capitalism - an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, *rather than by the state* socialism - any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or *governmental ownership* and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods Don't try to sit there and lecture me on YOUR ignorance.

      3. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin oh so that’s why you mentioned that the debate has nothing to do with state socialism? Lol your such a joke.

      4. Michael Mappin

        @Brian Unger , dude, I have no idea what you're talking about. Of course the government has a huge influence on economics, regardless of your talking about Socialism or capitalism. Government intervention the capitalist system would collapse almost immediately. The debate is about two different modes of production. The socially onda mode of production and the privately-owned mode of production. Do you understand? One mode is democratic. The other undemocratic. One system is bottom up. The other is top-down. One mode is controlled by the workers, democratically, equally. The workers are doing their own work, not capitalizing on other people's labour. The private mode of production capitalizes on other people's labour for profit. When the workers own the company, then they get to keep all of the wealth that the company produces. When people work as employees, they do not get to keep all of the wealth that their labour produces. We're talking very simple factual differences.

      5. Brian Unger

        @Michael Mappin how are economics and the state/government not linked and directly effect one another? The fact that you think they are not shows your clear lack of any education on economics.

    99. uncommon logic

      Freedom will end with socialism. Is it mob rule, mob being the majority,and this is based on the premise that all people are Well Informed. 80-20 rule applies, 20% are informed and 80% are shall we say are Not. Socialism has existed for over a hundred years, it keeps evolving but never succeeding, piss poor argument.

      1. James Adams

        @uncommon logic you're talking to a paid shill. Michael Mappin is a habitual liar who insults and gaslights when he gets proven wrong. He's been spamming lies here for over a year because he's a paid Richard Wolff nut hugger.

      2. James Adams

        @Michael Mappin no, only embarrassment here is yours. Slaves weren't bound by contracts you historically and economically illiterate moron.

      3. uncommon logic

        @Brian Unger Good on you as well. I always " correct" stupidity in comments or in videos, for the simple reason of exposure. Leftists have the power they do because conservative thinking rarely calls BS ( I mean before 2017). They are masters at conflating words and spinning half truth's claiming it as full truth, it's just faulty Logic. Hence my handle..... Cheers

      4. Brian Unger

        @uncommon logic Well done sir. I have been doing that for a bit now myself. The amount of BS he tries to sell people blows my mind. Good on you.

      5. uncommon logic

        @Michael Mappin as for your example of worker owned business, you don't understand that concept. Worker owned means that part of their salary goes into shares of the company. They are not bosses they are stakeholders, their salary is commensurate with their job, the incentive to make the business profitable is simple, they get paid dividends from profits of the company. Stop conflating words and issues , I have never seen a " successful Marxist worker". Seen wealthy Politburo members as in every single Sociallist system. Marxism sounds great on paper but will never work for a simple reason, humans.

    100. Eric J

      imo I like how Richard spoke to Socialism as a whole. A conversation around what makes each philosophy/economic standard unique and how they are different would be interesting.